Embark on a riveting journey through the ever-evolving work landscape with Eryn Peters, a visionary at the forefront of the future of work. Our conversation peels back the layers of how the gig economy is fundamentally reshaping professional trajectories, highlighting the interplay of full-time roles and side hustles. Eryn's expertise shines as she discusses the 'skillification' of labor and why it's critical to keep your finger on the pulse of workforce trends to thrive in a project-based economy. This episode is a treasure trove for anyone seeking to understand the freelance phenomenon and how to leverage it for career growth.
Have a question or comment? Email us at themanifista@gmail.com.
Portia Mount on LinkedIn
Tiffany Waddell Tate on LinkedIn
Eryn Peters on LinkedIn
Eryn Peters Website
Weekly Workforce Newsletter
Embark on a riveting journey through the ever-evolving work landscape with Eryn Peters, a visionary at the forefront of the future of work. Our conversation peels back the layers of how the gig economy is fundamentally reshaping professional trajectories, highlighting the interplay of full-time roles and side hustles. Eryn's expertise shines as she discusses the 'skillification' of labor and why it's critical to keep your finger on the pulse of workforce trends to thrive in a project-based economy. This episode is a treasure trove for anyone seeking to understand the freelance phenomenon and how to leverage it for career growth.
Have a question or comment? Email us at themanifista@gmail.com.
Portia Mount on LinkedIn
Tiffany Waddell Tate on LinkedIn
Eryn Peters on LinkedIn
Eryn Peters Website
Weekly Workforce Newsletter
Welcome to season four of the Manifesta podcast, a career and lifestyle podcast for aspiring women. I'm Portia Mount. Join me and my co-host, Tiffany Waddell-Tate, this season on our mission to help women find their purpose, lead high-impact careers, and live fulfilling personal lives by sharing the stories of women who've carved their own path to success. The future is female. Let's get started. Hello squad, our guest today is Eryn Peters.
Portia Mount:Eryn is a future of work evangelist, retired digital digital nomad and scale-up builder. She is the founder of Startup Consortium, a boutique agency, the editor of Weekly Workforce and the global director of the Association of the Future of Work. Before founding startup consortium, she built two unicorns in the staffing industry where saw firsthand the challenges that tech companies and workers go through worldwide. She has dedicated her career to exploring the high performing teams of global knowledge fast-paced in environments. Her work in freelance and platform economies has impacted over three million workers in 190 plus countries. You can find Eryn on LinkedIn and be sure to subscribe to her amazing newsletter, weekly workforce, at wwwweeklyworkforce. com. As always, you can find these links in the show notes. Eryn, a welcome to you, the pod.
Eryn Peters:Thank you for having me. It's nice to be here, so, Eryn let's just jump in here.
Portia Mount:But first off, where does this podcast find you?
Eryn Peters:I'm in my home office in London in the UK.
Portia Mount:Wonderful, and I think you're our first international guest, so I'm really excited about that.
Eryn Peters:So you know, yeah, so yeah.
Portia Mount:So, Eryn, we've been talking I feel like we've been talking about the future of work forever. The future is here, it's actually happening, but where do you think we actually stand as far as the future of work goes? Like, what does it really mean for the average professional?
Eryn Peters:Yeah, you know, for the average person it probably sounds like this futurist mumbo jumbo, but in reality, it's just about keeping up with trends. If you think about it, 30% of our life is happening in the workplace, so you might as well stay on top of what's happening around you because, quite frankly, there's a lot of opportunities to accelerate your career or growth opportunities, and you can either be proactive with change or be blindsided by it. So I think the average person really should stay on top of some of these trends, because there's just a lot of chances that you can take advantage of it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Eryn, when you talk about the average person staying on top of trends for those that might not be paying fully in tune with what's happening, can you get a quick primer on the size of the freelance industry and why it's continuing to grow and why that matters?
Eryn Peters:Absolutely. You know, I think it's a lot bigger than people think. So 38% of the US workforce performed freelance work in 2023, and it was accounting for about $1.27 trillion in the US which is wild, that is wild, that is absolutely wild, yeah.
Eryn Peters:So a lot of people just don't think that it's this popular or mainstream. But if you think about it, people are going. Oh, it's kind of black and white You're either an employee or a freelancer and what we're seeing is this trend of more and more people doing both. They're moonlighting, they have side hustles and they're slowly dipping their toes back and forth into full-time employment, solopreneurism and freelancing. So I think there's a few factors where we're actually going to see it grow. Even more than that, I think. Obviously, as we saw tech layoffs, more and more people were finally making the jump to be solopreneurs or self-employed and on the flip side of that, as companies were short-staffed, they're going hey, we still need someone to do this work and I have a hiring freeze, so who am I going to hire? Freelancers and contractors. So there's a lot more of this happening in the workforce, especially in the current economic climate.
Portia Mount:I know this lifestyle intimately, so we all do, yeah, we all do, we all made this jump, which is, in some ways, not as scary as it seems when you get into the other side of the wall. It's that you find that it's actually there's, exactly as you say, a ton of people who are doing it, Eryn, and I'm curious is full-time employment a thing of the past, where someone goes to work for a company? A young person comes out of college and goes to work for a company nine to five? Are we seeing that the boomers are getting ready to? They are retiring in massive, massive numbers. Is full-time employment going out the door with the boomers?
Eryn Peters:You know. It's interesting that you say that, because I think full-time employment is always going to be a thing when we think about the numbers of hours that are worked, but in-house employment is kind of phasing out to a certain extent. Biggest shift, I think, is more the classification of work than it is the amount of hours that are being worked. So are we seeing more short-term projects that might be full-time, or things that have discrete deliverables and project-based type of work rather than being you're coming in to be this one specific role for the duration of your time at this company. That, I think, is going to be more of a thing of the past.
Eryn Peters:So this trend is called the skillification of work, and so I think roles are fundamentally broken. By the time you read a job description, it's usually at a date it's not really accurate, or you start the job and you realize that's not what I signed up for and then you're stuck in this role with probably a regulated pay raise schedule and you know it doesn't really work Like in-house, full-time, role-based employment is kind of a thing of the past, I think. But if we start thinking about the skillification of work, freedom of internal mobility within companies, if you're going to go that route and really just creating like internal and external talent pools where, if you like someone's work and they're good at what they do, they can work on many different teams and projects rather than being kind of pigeonholed into one specific area. So full-time yes, in-house maybe not.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:It sounds like the other side of I know. During the pandemic there was a lot of conversation in popular media and influencer communities and thought channels around the great resignation and now it feels like what you're describing is tied to the great betrayal. Can? You talk a little bit about that, because I know you talk a ton in your newsletter and in your content about it and I think our listeners need to understand what that really needs for employees.
Portia Mount:It sounds so dramatic too when you say the great beat trail Like ooh, and you know I love gossip too. So like I'm leaning yes, Eryn, you and I share this, that we love todry gossip.
Eryn Peters:We learned this in another conversation that we love Give me all the reality TV and still the TV. We love it, we love all the.
Portia Mount:We love the. We love the trash. So tell us about the great betrayal.
Eryn Peters:Yeah, I'm glad that you kind of mentioned it in hand with the great resignation too, because really what it is is that it is kind of this dramatic telenovela of the power balance and battle between workers and companies. And with the great resignation we saw a lot of people who were going like I'm better than this, I can do better than you, I quit, right, and they're basically going. You know, I hold all of the keys to the kingdom. And the great betrayal, I think, was the other side of that. People who didn't quit and resign, or didn't quite quit, they're going whoa, whoa, whoa. You said I was good here, you said I had a job.
Eryn Peters:So I think the reason it's a betrayal is because, like, there's two sets of contracts when it comes to employment. One is like that physical contract that you sign that says you're going to work for me this many hours and I'm going to pay you this many dollars, right, like we've all signed these contracts. But these social contracts that are kind of unspoken and implied are the ones that I think carry the most emotions for workers. So if you have a boss that never takes time off, it doesn't mean you don't have a written vacation policy, but you might second guess how much vacation you're going to take. That's a social contract. That's almost like an expectation based on behaviors and when we start thinking about, like all of these people that were going, hey, we describe our team as a family. Our culture is like so tight in it like this and then they were dropped, like that.
Portia Mount:And they were just triggered in the layoffs. Well, some people drop kicked their families, but not really Right.
Eryn Peters:But they're kind of going. So I have to behave in a way that makes me prioritize this company and everyone around me, you get to be taken away, where my needs are not prioritized sometimes and people are going.
Eryn Peters:I worked extra hours in the pandemic, I work on the weekends, I miss my kids birthday and here you go, treating like this. So betrayal is a strong word because these are such strong emotions that people have been feeling, they're realizing that they are replaceable. They do become second and third priority, when they were constantly conditioned to say that work in this team is your number one priority. So I think it's strong language because it is. It needs to be.
Portia Mount:Yeah, for sure, and I think the way you unpack that, Eryn, is so important because, you know, I want to kind of pull on another little thread. One of the things I have noticed is companies are hiring incredibly wonderful young, talented people, and those talented people have side hustles. Maybe side hustles they've been running for three or four years. Actually, they're not even. We shouldn't even call them side hustles. They are running businesses. They are, so they are multi hyphenants. Right, we're seeing young people come out of college. They can see this even more with Jen Alpha. They are multi hyphenants, they have portfolio careers and so companies snap them up, say, oh, you're great, this is going to be, you're going to have this great career here. And then they're like wait a minute, you have a side business, you have a, you have a social media following, you have a newsletter with 100,000 followers, you've got a YouTube channel that you're monetized.
Eryn Peters:Oh, oh, no, no, no, no, no, you can't, you can't do that, but isn't it so funny how those are all things that a potential employer would look at and are reasons they would hire you, but the moment that you start working for them are reasons why you're not dedicating 100% of your job.
Portia Mount:Yeah, and I'm just like I can't make sense of it. But it's. But you know, but it gets back to this kind of it's like all the things that made you appealing as an as an employee. You come inside and all of a sudden they're like no, no, no, we don't want you to do. All the things that made you attractive potential employee are the things that we want you to stop doing. And I think and I'm seeing so many people say you know what? I do not need this shit. Like I am out. I don't know if you have a perspective on that and let's say, because we're kind of, we're talking to employ, we're talking to leaders here who are hiring these people, like, what do you like? This is, this is a crisis here. If you want to keep talented people's, what are you telling leaders right now?
Eryn Peters:Yeah, totally Well. I mean I have a ton of thoughts and feelings on this. Obviously I have a lot of opinions, otherwise you wouldn't have me here. I think that's an interesting Good.
Portia Mount:Thoughts and feelings with data are also good, but also just thoughts and feelings. We yeah, you can. You can also rage. If you want to just rage for a few minutes, you can do that too, I'm sure I will.
Eryn Peters:But. But you know it's people who are diversifying their employment. I think is also a symptom of the great betrayal.
Eryn Peters:So there's a really great stat that it came out last year was surveys done by a team. They concluded that 62% of knowledge workers do not trust 100% of their income coming from one source anymore, and so I think we're all going oh okay, my eggs really can't be on this basket, so I probably should maintain my newsletter, probably should have a few irons in the fire just in case, because you don't know really what's going to happen and you want to maintain a personal brand or business in that way. And how are leaders going to respond to this and what can they do? I think part of it is just being human, like realistically. Leaders at companies are probably also doing some of these things. They are advising other companies, they are doing other things and I think embracing it is going to be an important part of going. Hey, by people doing this, they're learning other skills that they can kind of bring that knowledge and share within the company for performance, and I think, in addition to kind of embracing it, having a healthy dose of realism is also good.
Eryn Peters:One of my favorite examples of companies that do this really well is LinkedIn.
Eryn Peters:So when you go to onboarding, when you start at LinkedIn in your onboarding, they basically go when you leave here and work somewhere else and then when you come back and then teach us what you learned, they're telling you in your first days on the job that they expect you to leave and they also expect you to come back someday, because the door is always open if you're good at what you do.
Eryn Peters:So, like boomerang rates and hiring, I think is a more realistic way than looking at things like forcing retention, because in reality, nobody owns talent. That is a kind of viewing of the past is like I own you, I pay you or I have golden handcuffs on you, you're mine, and in reality we're all free wills, people that can go and work wherever we want. Especially smart people have options. So what are you doing to stay their number one option and how are you giving them freedom and flexibility to work in the ways that they need to to develop skills that they're then going to want to kind of put into their work where you are? So leaders need to be both embracing of this change and really realistic to kind of the workforce that we're working in.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I love this, Eryn. I mean, really, what you're cracking into is the concept of employee value proposition. Why should someone share their talents with a company? And what really resonates with me in all that you're sharing is that leaders of companies are doing these things, and so there's also this underpinning of a caste system of who gets to do things outside of their nine to five.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about that, yeah, especially when you think about this forced return to work situation on this side of the pandemic and how we're still talking about this right. And so we went from the boomerang out to a ton of knowledge. Workers had the luxury of being fully remote, even if they hadn't been remote before, to a sliding scale of hybrid by choice, depending on what you do to. Now it feels like everyone's been flung back into these really dusty office buildings. So I'm just curious do you think that the concept of hybrid or remote work will become more of a privilege, or become more of a right than a privilege, rather, for those that are not in the executive level of an organization?
Eryn Peters:Yeah, it's a really, really important question and in reality, like the surveys that we're seeing, is that more managers actually want to work remotely than the employees, which is kind of interesting, right. So we're seeing more of these top line managers that want to do that. Different organizations are going to behave differently as well. So if you have a remote native organization, they're definitely not calling people back to the office and in fact I'm have one but those who have kind of transitioned back and forth are really struggling. I do think that hybrid is one of the hardest workforces to crack. You need to have the best practices of both worlds. So I do think that it's going to be a bit of a continued challenge in that way. But I actually want to kind of get back to something that you said about past system, because I do think that this world in the future of work is still not built equally, and when we start talking about women in the workplace or people who have more responsibility at home, like they are the ones who are being hit the hardest by calls back to the office and also just different ways that they're being supported.
Eryn Peters:So if we talk a little bit about classification, for example, which we touched on earlier in this conversation. It's not about being full time or part time. It's about being classified as an employee or being classified as a contractor, and so, of course, I'm a big promoter of everybody be solopreneur, everybody go be a contractor. It's great, but in reality, there's a downside to that. So workers protections also go out the window unless you're an employee, and this is something that we need to work on with governments and companies to change.
Eryn Peters:But one of those things is you know, if you are an employee, you get paid time off, you get unemployment insurance, you get healthcare contributions and also other perks and benefits, and so when we start thinking about the fact that women take on merber at home we saw in the pandemic and with remote work, this was exacerbated in ways we've never seen before then childcare and all this is just hitting the hardest, and so recent studies actually showed that 52% of mothers are considering leaving the workforce because of inadequate childcare and support. That's insane, like that's an unacceptable rate. So if we're talking about hybrid and in remote and in the house, like all of these different things of where you work and how you're classified are impacting different groups of people differently, and we're even seeing that remote workers get promoted less. That's a new study that just came out last week. So all of these different factors, it becomes a really overwhelming environment for any of us to go.
Eryn Peters:Okay, should I just go to the office today or not? Because if it means having to pay extra, should I get childcare for my child's, or you know, I get to stay at home, but I'm not going to get promoted. Like what am I going to choose? So these are just terrifying times for workers.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:And then you also add forced happy hours and other performance Forced fun is the worst Just so that you can be seen to maybe be sponsored inside of an organization.
Portia Mount:Just shoot me now.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Just shoot me.
Portia Mount:Now I have to find the New York Times article about the company that like to make their office more fun, like, painted the walls bright colors and added like all like snack bars, and they were trying to make it more home like. And I was literally like WT, I think first of all the article was dragged for the company was dragged for filth, for doing it Deserve it least as they should have been WTF, wtf.
Portia Mount:But the other piece that just kills me is people are going back to off, to being dragged back to the office, and then they are still doing Zoom conferences in their individual offices, like they're actually not getting together more because they're just in the office. They were alone together, basically, and I suspect, if you really really probe these companies, there's a lot of alone togetherness inside of these office buildings. But a couple of things, so one a comment, and then a question for you. One is we're not talking about the massive amounts of empty office space I think in the United States alone, four million square feet of unoccupied office space and I believe what's driving some of this is the fact that you've got these really long-term leases that these companies cannot get out of, and so you've got your CEOs and CEOs gnashing their teeth every month looking at the fact that their building is basically mothballed and they can't get out of these leases. So the smart companies are getting out of their leases and being much more thoughtful about where they put locations.
Portia Mount:The question for you, though, Eryn, that makes me think about this is the change management around all of this. I know this is a passion and an expertise of yours, and I don't think we are talking enough about the behavior and managerial changes, operational changes, that leaders need to embrace to get us through this moment. So, just, I love your perspective there because I feel like it's the missing part of this whole conversation of leaders need to behave, act and behave differently, and we're not creating that expectation at all, it seems.
Eryn Peters:I am going to agree with you and disagree with you actually, because I think, if we look at all of us in this kind of studio or virtual studio, all of us are leaders and all of us know that we need, we'll be behaving differently, but that's because we are very we're enlightened women, though.
Eryn Peters:Yeah, but I think there's so much content out there that nowadays of how to be a good manager, how to be a good leader, and as more millennials and Gen Z come into leadership, they really do care about human experience. What I think is doing them a disservice is the media and this is me putting on my tinfoil hat of everything that they're writing is wrong, but I think there's just a gap in content and support. All they're reading is these random articles about how remote work is either super hot or it's super not. And she has a horror story of something that happened because they weren't in an office, and really what we need to do is post best practices for people to actually learn. There is a really. I told you I was going to go on a rant at one point. This one really grants my gears.
Eryn Peters:So last year there was a study that was shared and it was picked up by every tier one media that you possibly imagine. Basically, the headline was work from home employees are 18% less productive than those that are in the office. And you're going wow, that's a lot of dollars, right? And if you actually click into the report, it was conducted in India and context matters. So if you think about it, working from home in multi-generational families is probably not a great environment to work. These were workers that were randomly selected to work from home or in office. They didn't have heads up or the ability to set up different places. Working remotely, like working near home or in a co-working space versus your own office, is also very different. So the research was flawed. But that's not what the media said. They said it's less productive. And then all the bandwagon jumpers that are anti-remote work gone on board, including one of the guys that has the highest stakes in office rentals in the world who said we know it, we've been telling you, come back and renew your leases.
Eryn Peters:And so I think we need to focus less on this kind of salacious polarizing media on the topics, which is fear mongering and not helpful to managers who, I truly think, want to do a good job. They wake up every day and they want to be a good manager and see results and have it all, and so we need to start teaching people things like what's the difference between making a remote first and a remote OK environment? Ok, what are the tactics that we can do with that? What's the change management, as you said? So a remote OK environment is if you want to take the afternoon to work from home, go for it.
Eryn Peters:But if we have a conference call, eight of us are going to be in the actual conference call room talking to each other and whispering and you're not going to be able to hear it from your home office and it's on the side. Or if we're remote first and not just remote OK, if one person isn't in the conference room, all of us take the call from our individual computers, because it makes it a better user experience for everybody in our company. So we need these types of tips that are small, tactical and actually make an impact to people being able to collaborate and work in changing environments. We need to stop searmongering and having so many articles written all the time. That's what we need to stop.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:You say that about so many topics, Eryn.
Eryn Peters:I know.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:We really just need to bring critical thinking back and wide scale problem solving.
Eryn Peters:My tinfoil hat at the shop is going to open on the weekend. I'll be your first subscriber.
Portia Mount:We will post the link. Send me the link later.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Everybody will post the link. I love it. Oh, but you're so right, and it's interesting because, as you're kind of talking, Eryn, I'm thinking so much about Gen Z and the little baby gen alphas and what a wild ride they're going to have with all that's swirling around right now.
Eryn Peters:But I also love them. Gen Z coming into the workforce they get no leaps. I don't know if I'm allowed to swear on this podcast. I'm monitoring myself.
Portia Mount:You can totally swear. No, you can't.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:You can swear on this.
Portia Mount:There haven't been a lot of F-bombs lately, but we've had them in the past, you can swear.
Eryn Peters:I've even strategically cropped out my get shit done, sign behind me, just for this oh, you have to do that, we have to do that. You should have brought it back.
Eryn Peters:We're all about getting shit done. Yeah, good, good, but yeah. But I love them because they're so funny, gen Z, they care about such big hair problems in the world that they also have a really obscure sense of humor and the way that they approach things. And I'm really loving this fresh new perspective that we have coming into the workforce, where people are just not afraid to call each other on their shit, not afraid to bring in external resources and just do things totally differently. Social norms aren't really a thing for them and I'm like, yeah, let's break it, it's not working anyways.
Portia Mount:It's so true, and you only have to go to Instagram to see some of the ways they meme their leaders. And I'm just, I just want leaders, especially if you are Gen X, like me. I don't think they have any idea of how much we are being made fun of for how we like Gen X, be like Gen Z, be like Jim, millennials, be like. It's just so funny, but also it cuts deep because you realize they really do think about work very differently, even things like PTO and one of my previous companies. A gentleman had retired. He'd been in the company for, let's say, 45 years and the one thing that he touted in his going away was that he had only missed one day of work. And yeah, exactly, just to look at your faces.
Portia Mount:Everybody was like, oh my god, I'm coming, I'm coming Right, like who would like in 2024 and the year of Beyonce's internet, who would ever, ever like tout that as an accomplishment? But it just shows you the difference in just how especially Gen Z thinks about their work. And, by the way, good for them, because, back to the point of our earlier conversation, the social contract has changed and so we have to behave differently.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Eryn. So for listeners who are thinking about pivoting away from a full-time role and thinking about becoming a full-time solopreneur or freelancer, what are three to five things people need to think about if they're thinking about making that switch?
Eryn Peters:I think first is really just doing some soft reflection I know that sounds a little boo-boo, but truly figure out what you enjoy doing and find the intersection between that and what you're good at. This is going to develop your niche of your offerings. I think knowing exactly what you want to do and how you want to do it is helpful, because otherwise there's just an overwhelming amount of jobs that you can do on a freelance basis or even remotely. Just think about what you want to do. That's the big one. I think the other is really thinking about your risk tolerance. We talked about it earlier too.
Eryn Peters:Of a lot of people think that this is very binary. You're either an employee or you're a freelancer. But all of us have the life situation or working situation where I can just quit my job and hope my business starts up making money tomorrow. I think that we need to go. Okay, what's my runway? Do I want to trickle my way in by doing some moonlighting or side hustles or starting a business quietly in my own hours like a Saturday solopreneur? Think about how much time you're willing to invest and how much capital you're willing to put at risk, because starting a business not only is money, depending on if you're selling goods or anything else, but it's opportunity cost of money you could be making elsewhere and in house employment. It's a really important conversation to have with yourself and with any of your dependents or people within your family or circle. Then from there, I see, start going through it.
Eryn Peters:You can find your own customers in so many different ways, whether you're advertising or the power of social media, as we talked about. But there's literally a platform for everything. You can do gigs to X and answer customer queries on platforms like limitless. Or you can learn software development skills and work with Top Child or Turing or Indella or all the blue companies that are out there. You can go to market or hire if you want to share some of your marketing skills or Upwork or Fiverr or Freelancercom that have any skill under the sun.
Eryn Peters:You don't have to go fully solo and develop your whole book of business. You can hop on these sites and see lots of companies that are looking for those skills and get hired, and there's some for lawyers and everything. Truly, open your mind and start looking for a talent platform or a talent marketplace for insert skill set here. I think those are the three things it's going. What do I like and what am I good at? As the first one, what is my risk tolerance and how much do I want to go online or not? Right now, where can I start generating some leads, whether it's immediately, very quickly, through my network, through social media, or finding a platform that suits you and already has a bit of a user grace there, nice.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I love this. Know yourself first of all.
Eryn Peters:First and foremost, know yourself. It was everything you do yes.
Portia Mount:Yes, and so, Eryn, for the folks who are, they decided they do want to work for a company and I'm going back to a piece that you know earlier part of our conversation and let's say they have a very well developed side business, and how would you advise them as their job searching, how to talk to their employers? Because, again, I feel like this is an area that you know. Of course, you see a lot of dramatic exits that then people share on LinkedIn and then share on Instagram. But, you know, I think there's an opportunity for companies to keep really talented people who also have, who are developing skills in these side ventures. So how would you advise someone who is looking for a full-time job and they have a very robust side business? How would you advise them to talk to their potential employer so that it's really clear that they intend to keep that business and to help explain to the employer why they're doing it? So we can, you know, maybe avoid people companies losing really talented people just because someone's got to decide a side business, side hustle.
Eryn Peters:Absolutely. I mean there's a couple mindsets about it. I always think honesty is the best policy, especially if you don't really have a relationship with this company yet. So be transparent about it and ask them upfront do you have a moonlighting policy? A lot of companies actually write it in their contracts now, saying you are not allowed to work for anybody else, even your own business, outside of this, because a lot of companies think that they're protecting your well-being by going.
Eryn Peters:Nobody can spend more than 40 hours a week at work and so you're going to spend those 40 hours with us. So make sure you check that legally, this isn't going to be an issue for you, and be forthcoming about the fact that you have these other things and I think part of it is how they respond is also a really good barometer for whether or not you really want to work there. Like, did they immediately get cagey about it? Were they realistic? Like, is this the type of person that you're going to want to work with anyways? Maybe or maybe not. You already are working somewhere and you want to either start or restart or maintain a side business or a side hustle in a different way. The r slash over employed Reddit community has over 200,000 people in it. There's a lot of people who are working two, three, five full-time jobs under the radar now.
Portia Mount:Oh my God, who are these people? And I'm sure you can find a lot of tips and tricks.
Eryn Peters:What? That's not me that could not be me. What A lot of people don't figure out automation, AI leveraging and revolver.
Eryn Peters:No, yeah, they've got good tips too, but you know, what Part of it is also going like hey, again, roles are really broken. They're like I'm going to find a role that's middle of the pack, and probably not leadership or management, and I'm just going to do an okay job at all of them. And if I do an okay job at all of them, that's about 100% of a full-time job. So you know, this is how people are gaming the system.
Eryn Peters:I myself can't ever advocate for people to break the law, but if you want to check out tips there's a lot of people about community.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:You don't want to touch that one, Eryn, it's like we are not endorsing over-employed Reddit.
Portia Mount:but you know, caveat, m-tor, oh no.
Eryn Peters:I mean I always endorse over-employments for those who are voluntarily over-employed. I never endorse people doing it where it's like potentially deceitful or illegal.
Portia Mount:I'll go that far, but like if you want to work multiple jobs, you do it, you build your empire.
Portia Mount:That is stuff, and a lot of times it's also about multiple. You know, back to your earlier point, it's about de-risking your income, diversifying and I think this again and diversifying your income and having multiple income streams. And again, what I hope leaders, hiring managers are hearing is like is asking themselves am I paying people what they're worth? Am I creating financial, the right kinds of financial incentives to keep my most talented people? And I think that's when people are feeling well compensated. There's, I would imagine, there's less desire to do that. But again, the mindset is very different, though. Right People?
Eryn Peters:are. Yeah, it's compensation is an interesting one because I there's golden handcuffs as a term right. I can't leave, submitting paid so much but I'd like to leave, and so I think valued is the right word here. If I feel valued whether that's through the form of monetary compensation, the way that I'm treated at work, you know all these other things like, if I still valued, yeah, I'm probably a lot more likely to be a really good employee. But compensation is sometimes a double-edged sword.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I also think you know people may feel really valid in their role and just have other interests. You know, I think this idea that your, your job is your beginning and end and where you should find happiness or fulfillment is so dated. It's an outdated idea, so even if you are valued, highly compensated, doing a great job, it's, you know, back to that caste system idea. Why is it okay for some people to have other interests or upskill or, frankly, build wealth, and it's not okay for other people to do it?
Eryn Peters:you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Portia Mount:So, Eryn, this, this is our favorite part of the pod. It's the lightning round. Tiffany, take us in.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:All right, so we'll have just a few questions. Don't overthink it. We'll ask you whatever comes to mind. So the first question is what is your favorite motto or phrase that defines your mindset? Oh, interesting.
Eryn Peters:I mean, I don't know if there's a favorite one, but one that I kind of come across recently that really stuck with me is let go or be dragged, and that I was going. You know, I have some we're talking about self reflection I got some things I'm working on and you know, I have things cester sometimes or I think about it, and so I'm like, yeah, you know, I really do need to let go because I am dragging myself.
Portia Mount:That's good, I needed that today I needed to hear like it kind of hit. Did you notice, Tiffany, how that hit when you were like, oh yeah, because I'm getting dragged on some things. So okay, thank you, Eryn's kicking some wisdom down the us. Yeah, of course. So you're accepting a huge award. What's your walk on song?
Eryn Peters:Oh gosh, see, I'm so bad with music and names of songs, but I would either do something really ironic like Rick, for all everybody in the audience, or like really cheesy classic like I have the tiger, just like classic.
Portia Mount:That is a classic, it is a classic.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Okay, what is one book that you find yourself recommending or gifting often?
Eryn Peters:Oh yeah, I mean I have two that I probably recommend all the time. Actually, portion is that one of them? I have a lot of friends that are single and I also work in a matchmaking industry, so you know talent platforms is matchmaking. So I recommend the book how to Not Die Alone by Logan Urie.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I love that.
Eryn Peters:Ready Miss Down.
Portia Mount:It's a savage title, but it is full of good tips, Because the dating streets apparently across the globe are I'm married, but the dating streets across the globe are trash.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Yes, it's so bad the dating streets are trash.
Eryn Peters:It's not anyone. It's horrible but it's really interesting. It really forces you again to self reflect but give some tactical tips on how to go about it. As someone who works with different technology matching algorithms. She also goes deep into how technology is affecting the way that we find matches and partners which, if you are in the staffing industry or matchmaking in any way shape or form, maybe it's also interesting for you. But the other book I always recommend is a lot of people I talk to are in major career moments or inflections. They're not sure what to do, and I love the book the Alchemist, so like finding your purpose and like taking science from the universe of what's working and what's not, and it's really cute read. So those are kind of my top two that I always pull out from the buck shelf behind me.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Yes.
Portia Mount:I love those, I love that. So what's the best purchase under $150? Now, I know you're working in pounds now so you'll have to do the translate, but under $150 that you've made, I mean like my dog is the most obvious one.
Eryn Peters:But I mean other than that, like probably my monitor. Like I was a digital nomad for five years and worked only on my laptop and in hindsight I don't know how I did it because I'm quite tall. So having an actual external monitor that I can set up straight while I'm working has been a real game changer for my back.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Yeah, Okay, Eryn. What is a secret unpopular opinion that you hold? This is my favorite question.
Eryn Peters:In addition, in addition to hating the media, no, I think one that is always like triggers a lot of people, I think is like I really don't think that MBAs are worth anything.
Eryn Peters:I think, like tons of money where you're basically buying a network. I think that it's really meaningless and by the time you actually go through the learnings from an MBA program, it's already out of date in the modern business world when it comes to like international working or like marketing trends. So I actually think that your money is better spent starting a business and like, even if you fail, you're probably going to learn more than you will in an MBA. All right, that is a hot take, Eryn, and this is coming from someone who's spoken at a very prestigious MBA business school with him last year as well.
Portia Mount:So don't tell me what I will not. Well, as someone who has an MBA, and I will tell you who got it more than 10 years ago, there's nothing that we did it learned in market and marketing that is relevant today Absolutely nothing. So I will I do. I agree with you, Eryn, that the value proposition for the MBA has just really, really changed. And I think I get asked all the time should I get an MBA? And I will tell you a lot of times I tell people don't even bother, you know what I mean. Like take a course, get a certification but, don't.
Portia Mount:don't spend a ton of money unless someone's going to you get into Harvard and someone's going to pay you to send you there, and even then you know just like just it may not be worth it. So I love that point.
Eryn Peters:I know you're buying the network. It's not about the course materials, right Like it's about the net.
Portia Mount:Exactly, Exactly. So our last question for you today is what's a hobby you have that would surprise people who know you?
Eryn Peters:I would like to think that I'm a fairly multifaceted person, but I think one that surprises people is because I live in such a digital world. I actually crocheted like a lot of hobbies have been 80 year old women, but that's probably one that surprises people more.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I love this. My daughter. She's seven but she crochets and it's very into it. It's a whole thing.
Eryn Peters:Yeah, oh my gosh, we'd be besties.
Portia Mount:I you know what I love. That kind of it's part of that slow lifestyle. It's like I do canning and I like and it's like a old school hobby. People are like you like with the boiling, with the boiling water and the jars, and so I love that you've got this kind of slow hobby where you use your hands and everything. What's, what's something that you've made that you're really proud of?
Eryn Peters:I should make all kinds of stuff. I think the strangest thing I've ever made was I was commissioned to crochet a sweater for a chicken that had lost all of its feathers.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Oh, my goodness what. I have so many questions. What's happened to their feathers?
Eryn Peters:I have so many questions Like what's happened to their feathers?
Tiffany Waddell Tate:There's a marketplace for this. And what? What happened to their feathers?
Eryn Peters:Oh, it's attacked my daughter. It's quite sad, but it was no longer cold because it had a sweater done by Aaron Peters.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:This is top tier content.
Eryn Peters:This is the second Etsy shop that you need to open.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Eryn, I don't know, chicken sweaters, sweaters for featherless chickens.
Portia Mount:This is amazing. We cannot talk. I don't know who is going to top this Tiffany. Nobody can you and.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Aaron, can I just say you, are an icon, and for that answer alone.
Portia Mount:I am so you kick down so much knowledge today, but let me tell you this was the icing on the cake. I don't know how we can ever top this. And also, I will not be able to stop thinking about a chicken running around with a bespoke sweater.
Eryn Peters:Yeah, yeah, it was a very happy chicken in the end.
Portia Mount:I am sure. Aaron Peters, thank you so much for joining us today. It has been such a delight, and we hope that people go out and find you on LinkedIn as well as sign up for your newsletter. Give a quick overview of what your newsletter is about, too, so people can make sure that they do sign up for it.
Eryn Peters:Absolutely. I mean it's weeklyworkforcecom. I write about anything to do with the future of work, whether it's remote working, digital nomadism, freelancing and contracting, like we talked about today, new laws and legislation. It all sounds very dry and boring, but I'm also love a good meme, love throwing in my own two cents on things. So if you liked my tone and kind of voice and opinions I had in this call, it's just more of that and it's in your inbox every week. I love it, by the way.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I love you.
Portia Mount:And thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to the Manifesta podcast. Our sound designer and audio engineer is Nina Pollak of Nina Pollak Sound. Our social media manager is destiny. I have a question, comment or topic for our next episode? Email us at themanifesta at gmailcom. Be sure to rate, review and subscribe to our show on Apple podcast, spotify or wherever you listen to your pods. Your ratings help other listeners find us. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at themanifesta, and TikTok at themanifestapod. See you next time.