Discover what happens when the corporate world's rigid expectations crash into the quest for work-life harmony, as Celinda Farías Appleby, a renowned figure in Global Talent Attraction, joins us to unravel the 'lazy girl jobs' myth and more. Together, we discuss the realities that women, especially those seeking balance and those who are mothers, face when climbing the professional ladder. We share stories and strategies on setting boundaries, and Celinda lends her wisdom on how we can all advocate for our needs to foster a more empathetic workspace.
Have a question or comment? Email us at themanifista@gmail.com.
Portia Mount on LinkedIn
Tiffany Waddell Tate on LinkedIn
Celinda Farías Appleby on LinkedIn
Celinda Farías Appleby on Instagram
Celinda Farías Appleby on X
Discover what happens when the corporate world's rigid expectations crash into the quest for work-life harmony, as Celinda Farías Appleby, a renowned figure in Global Talent Attraction, joins us to unravel the 'lazy girl jobs' myth and more. Together, we discuss the realities that women, especially those seeking balance and those who are mothers, face when climbing the professional ladder. We share stories and strategies on setting boundaries, and Celinda lends her wisdom on how we can all advocate for our needs to foster a more empathetic workspace.
Have a question or comment? Email us at themanifista@gmail.com.
Portia Mount on LinkedIn
Tiffany Waddell Tate on LinkedIn
Celinda Farías Appleby on LinkedIn
Celinda Farías Appleby on Instagram
Celinda Farías Appleby on X
Welcome to season four of the Manifesta podcast, a career and lifestyle podcast for aspiring women. I'm Portia Mount. Join me and my co-host, tiffany Waddell-Tate, this season on our mission to help women find their purpose, lead high-impact careers and live fulfilling personal lives by sharing the stories of women who've carved their own path to success. The future is female. Let's get started. Hey squad, welcome to the pod.
Portia Mount:So glad to be welcoming Celinda Farías Appleby, director of Global Talent Attraction at Visa. It's a recognized leader in recruiting and employer branding who, for the past 15 years, thrived in Global Talent Acquisition departments of Fortune 100s, creating innovative digital strategies for industry-leading brands like Nike and WarCole and HP. Sully, as you'll hear us call her today, specializes in designing premium experiences and stories centered around humanizing the talent attraction life cycle, so important. She is a recruiter by trade. She's previously held roles within corporate and agency enterprises. She is an avid smoker head, a baseball mom yay sports moms who resides in Portland, oregon, with her 15-year-old twin sons God love that when you got twin boys. Her social handles are at Sully underscore speaks on X and Instagram, and you can follow her on LinkedIn. Of course, as always, we are going to have these handles in the show notes and we look forward to you visiting her and following her. Sully so great to have you on the pod Welcome.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Thank you for having me. Yeah, sully, I'm so excited for this conversation. As our listeners will soon learn, we spend a lot of time on the IG streets just chatting with each other, engaging with each other, and the topic for today is lazy girl jobs, toxic bosses and all the wild things that can happen at work as women of color, and I know you have a lot to say about that. So let's jump in. Last year, there were a lot of hot takes rolling around on IG and the TikTok and X and I think over on LinkedIn too, around this concept of lazy girl jobs, and I think it is a direct response to a lot of people being really burnt out post 2020. So, when you think about work-life integration and what we're all looking for, especially as women and women of color who sometimes have to choose between family, career, naps, you know what do you think about lazy girl jobs? Is this a phenomenon? Is it real?
Celinda Farías Appleby:You know I take great offense that the media, you know, because it is media, whether it's social or digital, that have you know coined this term of lazy girl for women because men have been doing it for a while.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Thank you Right, but suddenly women?
Celinda Farías Appleby:right, they still are. But suddenly women have boundaries and suddenly women are asking for different things. Right, this isn't the 1950s, when we entered the workforce, but all of a sudden we have these boundaries, these new requests, these. Hey, this is how we're going to best provide to you, corporate America. And now it's lazy. Now we're lazy, yeah, in reality, yeah, and in reality I would say we're just trying to meet expectations.
Celinda Farías Appleby:You know, since the 1950s, they've wanted us to exceed expectations, but those expectations change every single year, depending on who you are and who you report to. And so, anyways, what I believe and I'm not going to call it lazy girl phenomenon what I believe is we've been in the workforce and we're at a place where we're comfortable to say, hey, I'm a mom. I mean, all my managers previous to me have never told me they had kids or that they were at a baseball field.
Celinda Farías Appleby:They were just taking these business calls and I thought we could. We had to hide our kids and now people like us are being vocal about it. It's on my calendar. I want generations under me knowing hey, I'm going to step away and go to a baseball game, hey, I'm going to step away and go read, you know, and volunteer at the high school. And. But I didn't have that growing up.
Portia Mount:Is that crazy to think that we didn't? We used to not talk about having kids at work? No, I can't even.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I can't, it's just crazy. I don't remember at HP, because I was there, that was the start of my corporate America career and I it was an office job Nobody very few, I'll say a handful of women had pictures of their children on their desks or cubicles. Well, where now it's not, it's very different. I walked the halls of visa and I see family, I see, you know pets, I, it says more of a work life integration than it was when I joined corporate America 15 years ago.
Portia Mount:Yeah, and Celia, I wonder, you know, and so I'm, I'm hoping that you know the young professionals, men and women, right, because we know we need men to be thinking about. You know boundaries as much as women. Is there a way to set these boundaries while also showing commitment? Because I think one of the the the meta to all of this is that in the past, like we wanted to show that we were 100% committed to our jobs and to getting promoted, that was the way to get from that. That was what we believed was the way to get promoted. And so how can you set boundaries? And, by the way, if you, if you don't have kids, you still have other shit you want to do 100%, like that's not related to work, and you should be able to not just say, hey, I've got a kids baseball game, but you know I'm, you know singing in my board meeting.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Yeah, I've got a board meeting.
Portia Mount:I'm seeing my church choir etc. And I've got to go to this rehearsal, so I just talk a little bit about that. What advice do you have there?
Celinda Farías Appleby:No, and that's actually you bringing up the singing. We have a woman on my team who is a Grammy nominated singer and she puts, she tells us, you know, hey, we're gonna, I'm traveling for this, you know, as that, and so I do think and she's obviously much younger, a little bit more earlier in her career, than I am I think it all comes from a place of being more vocal and it is really hard because I do want to speak to the point where you said you know, promotions happen because we're telling people we want to get promoted, and I still think that's the vibe.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I still think that's the vibe in corporate America, and I do think there's managers that don't put those restraints on us right. There's sprinkling. I always say there's five generations in corporate America and depending on who you know is your boss, is what you get. But you still have to humble yourself and say I'm sacrificing, I am the brand, what do you need from me? And I don't think it should be that way.
Celinda Farías Appleby:To be honest, I do think it starts with these conversations, as podcasts is great. There's, you know, other women that are doing the same thing, but we definitely need more men on board to support us. I also think it starts at home. I have a budding entrepreneur in my house and you know he's selling sneakers, reselling sneakers, and he'll put his little finger up and tell me he's got a business email to send and I'm like no, no, we're at dinner. You can send that in 20 minutes, right? So I think it's set in those conversations of allowing, because I do think Gen Z and your mom you know both of you, I think have Gen Z, maybe Alphas, alphas, we have Alphas.
Portia Mount:I have a Z and I have a Z God help me and an Alpha oh okay, so you're managing two generations in your household.
Celinda Farías Appleby:It's a lot.
Portia Mount:It's a lot. It's a lot. I'll take that there'll be session later. It's a lot.
Celinda Farías Appleby:My kids tell me all the time that my job is is I'm in the matrix, and they're like when I graduate college, I don't want to be in the matrix. And so we have a lot of work to do as corporate America leaders to turn Gen Z you know, younger Gen Z, not current Gen Z in the workforce and Alpha into wanting to join corporate America, because I see a lot more entrepreneurship coming out of that generation than than we have in ours.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:For sure. I'm really stuck on the sneaker resale, Like your kid is secretly a zillionaire.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Oh no, he's just getting started, but yeah.
Portia Mount:I'm his marketing person.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Oh yes.
Portia Mount:Yes, we love to see it. We will be linking to that, by the way, and also if my son by the way, if my son sees this. He's my 14 year old. He was also a sneaker head. He will lose his mind. I'll send it to you. He will lose his mind, yes.
Celinda Farías Appleby:He's really fair prices. We're not going to waste time on Brady's entrepreneurship but he's out here shipping maybe 10, 15 sneakers a week Wow, and yeah, and I'm really proud of him. It started he told me about it and I remember like pooing on his idea, like wait a minute, what are we going to do? But he's really shown resilience and he's been really good at it. So I see that this entrepreneurial spirit coming through from more people in his generation. I don't think they want to be shackled to these expectations. They want to create their own expectations and exceed them on their, at their own pace.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:That's a really great segue to the next question, sally, because something we've talked about with a few guests. Is this really visceral post COVID return to office like snatch everyone back and there is some tension between big corporate, some big corporate players who are declaring that all or most employees need to be in the office most of the time and employees who are, you know, often knowledge workers, not really wanting to do that or seeing of seeing the value in doing that. So where do you think in office policies are headed and how does that impact people who have more of an entrepreneurial spirit?
Celinda Farías Appleby:I think we've seen it. We've seen a lot of people leave the workforce. I've seen a lot of my friends leave the workforce in the past year and start up their own businesses, more so than I've ever had in my entire career. I do think we're going to see more of this return to office because I'm going to get a little astrology. You know, pluto is moving into Aquarius. It's the age of Aquarius, it's a power shift mentality, so you're going to see a lot more power dynamics this year play out in media, in careers, and I think it comes a lot. You know, obviously the astrology plays into it, but I think we're going to see this like employee versus employer and it's not just going to be returned to office. We're going to see a lot more I hate to say revolts, but a lot more vocalization of what we need and want, but saying us I'm just saying in general.
Celinda Farías Appleby:A great example is Nike just called its employees back four days in the office. I still have a bunch of friends that work there and you know, mandatory four days or goodbye is basically the message they received and that's a hard pill to swallow, especially if you're an orion, because there really aren't many other employers. So it's one of those things where if you're in the Bay or you're in Atlanta or you're in a population where you have competitive advantage, you might be able to say, all right, thanks, I'm going to move on to a different job. But when you're in a city where there, where you have maybe two big employers that could match salary and experience and promotional opportunities, you sort of have to eat it. Especially if you have families and bills, which we all do, you have to eat it, and so that sort of raises, that contention, right. And so we haven't seen what happens. We hear a lot of it, just people coming back, but we haven't talked about what happens with the internal feelings. That's what I predict will happen in the year 2024.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Man sounds exhausting, especially if that hasn't been your work lifestyle for the last few years, or ever for some employees.
Celinda Farías Appleby:A hundred percent and I'll tell you this. So I've always been a remote employee until Nike moved me here and I joined the swoosh and that was my first in-office job. Tech usually lets you work from home and the best way I can describe working from an office 24-7 because at that time it was five days a week. No work from home. You had to be super sick or weather-related emergency. It felt like you have toddlers. Being in an office felt like being a toddler without a nap.
Celinda Farías Appleby:So you know where everything is coming your way, your emotions are all, and I just kept seeing like I feel like I'm at a date here and there's nowhere to self-soothe because it's open office concept, anybody, there's no knocking on doors, and so I think the whole world is going through that right now. That's why I think there's going to be sort of I hate to call it an uprising, but I do think we're going to be hearing more about this in a different realm, for sure.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:How do you think that impacts how managers engage with their teams?
Celinda Farías Appleby:You know, I think, because we have five generations. There's some generations that are in-office handshake managers, right, and most of them are running our companies, which is why we're having these mandates. And then you have a lot of millennials, gen Xers, who are hey, I trust you, you do good work, you do you, and it puts people, it pits people against each other, right? And so I do think it creates inequities, especially for women of color, men of color, people of color, and especially if you're a minority in a minority number in your company, right, because then you don't get to see many people like you dealing with the same situations.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Yeah, so what you're saying is boomers are causing a lot of problems. That's what I'm hearing, sally.
Portia Mount:She's like I am not saying that, Tiffany, I am definitely not saying that, but you're not not saying that.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I do think that it has a lot to do with how they were raised in corporate America.
Portia Mount:Yes, absolutely, that's the model.
Celinda Farías Appleby:That was the model that they had, right, that was the model and so it's not. I honestly don't feel anybody is like evil or out to get people. I just think they thrive in that environment and they believe if they can thrive and have thrived, climb the ladder, making lots of money, got these big jobs, have successfully closed big deals, everyone else should follow the way they do it Sure Well, I think that's sort of what bias is inherently.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Whatever topic you're talking about is if it works for me, it should work for you, and if I'm in a power center, then I'm going to over index on. This should work for you as well, it should. But I do worry about what it means for our long term agility as people at work and living lives, but more importantly in some ways, our ability to compete globally because we are not harnessing at scale a different way of working. I mean, there are some companies doing it really well, but just at scale.
Celinda Farías Appleby:It's less and less right, and so I do think 2024 is going to be a year to watch. I think 2025, we're going to be dealing with the repercussions of 24. But I guarantee you, by 26, we go back to more hybrid but more work from home. I do think it's going to take two to three years to get back to where we were. I don't think many companies will go back to the 2020 mindset of 100% work from home. I don't think that'll be the case again, because I don't think many people thrived in that environment. I have a chunk of humans that didn't thrive in work from home environments.
Portia Mount:I've been in roles, probably most of my career, where I commuted all the time. I had one role where I was commuting 500 miles a week, which is a lot. I had another role where I was 100% remote and then I had a role that became that was pandemic and then hybrid and then 100% remote, and I'm just reflecting on your comment about who thrives. Where I hope we get Sully is around intentional gathering. I don't hear leaders enough, or maybe it's not being reported enough. I don't hear enough of us talking about intentional gatherings, meaning like you have to. I don't think people have a problem coming into the office if they know why we're going to be there. But this idea that you just need to be in the office because that's what we said and to your point, I'm really happy that you're talking about these generational differences. I particularly think our Gen Z are like this doesn't make any sense. Where all my teammates are in other parts of the world, they won't even come in, so they're all going to go to their offices.
Portia Mount:but we're talking, but we're still on Zoom. There's just things that don't make sense and I'm seeing Gen Z really question that of like questioning their leaders, which I think pisses off their probably next generation leaders. But it's a fair question. But I'm so curious your thoughts around how do we give back to the office, because sometimes you do need to. By the way, I'm a believer that there are times that there is nothing like being in the office for strategy sessions and there's things where, like you just get problem solving ideation. You get so much more done in a short amount of time when you're in the room physically look, you know it just getting up and debating and challenging and having conversation, like it's hard to replicate that virtually. So I'm just curious your thought of like how do we get leaders to think about that? You know, and I'm wondering if, even if you think about some other tools that you're seeing being used right now either, where you are in other places that people could be thinking about.
Celinda Farías Appleby:No, I'll be honest, I rarely see this out loud because I am a very small population, a current employer where I am remote. I mean, if we look at our full population, I'm probably one of 5% in the 5% category for work from home. Everyone else is hybrid and they have been hybrid for over a year. What I will say to your point is we opened up an Atlanta office about two years ago and I do see those teams collaborating quite a bit. We have an eight-day mandatory policy. You pick your eight days. You go into an office a month and I think the way that they're doing it is like two days a week is what they're, and then they pick it based on their team.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I do see, I'll be honest with you and I hate to call it FOMO because I do have my own thing going on, but I do see a lot of synergy and a lot more things get done on the Atlanta team. Same thing with our Austin team. However, to your point, my department has people in Wisconsin, in Atlanta, in Austin, in the Bay. We collaborate with people in Singapore, in India, we're going to be on Zoom, no matter what, because that's just the nature of a global entity when I find people struggle with virtual is they haven't established their virtual voice and their in-person voice.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Oftentimes you meet people in their one way in the office and then they come to the video Zoom and they're a completely different person and you can't really reconcile that. For example, when you're in office, it's a lot more collegiate, it's a lot more friendly. Even when you're delivering difficult news or you're doing big, heavy strategy meetings, it's still a lot more first name friendly, less stuffy, a lot more laughter. But when you get on the Zoom or Teams or whatever your avenue is, I think people become a little bit more buttoned up. Start using that corporate speak, pulling up their PowerPoints. Less time is spent on who you are, who your kids are, what did you do this weekend? And until we can come up with the authenticity of one person, regardless of where you're showing up, and being friendly no matter where, I think that that's the biggest thing I've seen personally as a remote employee for most of my career.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:So interesting and I'm thinking there's a lot I think that you could unpack there. I definitely think there are some sort of hard coded things generationally and of course this is just a wide generalization. It doesn't apply to everyone. But I think for people who are closer to the digital, native side of things, if you've sort of grown up academically or created social community online, there might not be as much of a separation between your online persona and your in person 100%.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Yes, if you're comfortable already yeah, If you're comfortable already and what type of culture your team is designing. I think the design side whether you're online or in person to Portia's point about intentionality is just, it's key, and I worry that we're so busy trying to execute all the time that we don't pause long enough to design what these gathering experiences look and feel like 100%, 100%.
Celinda Farías Appleby:And to give you an example, I had a manager many years ago. We were both remote. She hired me remote. She was remote and interview. She was amazing Baseball mom. We had to start a lot in common. And then we would get on meetings virtual and she was just checklist manager. And I'm like, well, what happened to that woman that was bonded with me over sitting in the rain watching baseball? But then I'd meet with her every six weeks and then she'd go back to that cool person hey, let's go grab a glass of wine, let's work on this PowerPoint, and so I but I see that a lot. I will say I do see that a lot and I just think it's people don't know. I agree with you, both of you are very present in digital media, you're comfortable as well, and but I think if you're not socially inept online, then you don't know how to act on the Zoom, on the.
Portia Mount:Zoom. I think it's so true and I will say, you know, I've for the last almost decade worked with highly technical people who also trend towards being introverted, and I am neither of those things and as and I'm also, you know, I think marketers probably stereotypically tend to be a little bit more, you know, forward facing. And I remember very like almost hilariously awkward moments on the Zoom, because they're just ready for the meeting to start and there's no banter, there's no nothing. They just want to throw up their spreadsheet which has like teeny, tiny lines and a thousand and a thousand Whoa wind up. You know what I mean. It's just like, okay, let's go. And it's like then it's hard. You're like yeah that's me.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I used to join like 30 seconds late 30 seconds to a minute late on purpose, so I didn't have to do all of that.
Portia Mount:No it was hilarious, so you'll be like okay, banter should almost be over. Banter is done. Tiffany is speaking on behalf of all of you introverts who are listening. She is out here doing the wrong and trying to score us extra votes of like. We do not want to hear your mouths, let's just get into business.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I like two minutes early popping in the icebreakers.
Portia Mount:I changed my background all the time because people ask me about the fun. I'm like talking about you know, I'm like I can have a fun, like I'm talking about a fun party before the meeting. What are you?
Celinda Farías Appleby:talking about Same same. That is balance. That is balance. That is how we draw our energy.
Portia Mount:That's exactly why we need all of your energy. We are vampires. We are vampires, I'm like, and that is why I'm so exhausted at the end of the day because of extra votes. Okay, so let's pivot to a more you know, kind of a serious topic. I have a little bit of fun here, but you know this topic of and I think it's actually in some ways, very related for why some people want to continue to work remotely and why others don't want to get back in the office this concept of pet to threat Celia I know you're familiar with it, but you know the squad may not be.
Portia Mount:This is actually a phrase that was coined in 2013 by Dr Keisha Thomas at the University of Georgia, and she researched. Her research identified this phenomenon where that, you know, directly affects the career trajectories of, certainly, black women. I imagine you might see that with Latino women as well. Her research found that, early in their careers, these women of color received and benefited from the support of their managers and mentors and those are often white males and who were eager to train them and, you know, promote them and sponsor them and cultivate them. And then, as these women became which were confident and competent in their roles.
Portia Mount:Something happens All of a sudden, they feel this little, they feel this kind of chill and, like you know what was the supportive person? All of a sudden, just this person's cooled down and you know, since then, a lot of women have been speaking out about this experience because it's devastating, right, it's not just like oh too bad, it is like psychologically damaging and we're seeing, I think, exits of women of color from their corporate jobs because of this, and so I just want to talk a little bit about this and how do we one, you know, raise awareness about what that this is happening to black and women of color and to help them feel, help us feel, seen? But also, I want to talk to, frankly, a white manager to say who may not even realize that this is actually something that happens all the time and that they have a role in when we talk about inclusive cultures. Creating includes a feeling of belonging that they have a direct role in, you know, and helping that.
Portia Mount:So curious, like. Let's just start maybe personally first. Have you ever experienced this at any point in your career? Again, we're talking about pet, from pet to threat.
Celinda Farías Appleby:So when I got the questions that you also deliver, I almost wrote about. My immediate reaction was to write back and say, oh, I'm not ready to talk about that because I haven't verbalized it. But you know, I've sat with the questions for a few weeks and I feel like maybe sharing my experience will help other people. Now, slightly a little different, but when I was courted at the swoosh to join the swoosh, it was about a four month courting process and I see that because, in addition to interviews, I was getting books on Portland, my kids were getting coloring books of Portland, I was getting shoes and hoodies, I was getting love bombs, but not, I can't blame the swoosh, I can blame the leader that was sending them right. In fact, occasionally I'll get these, I'll get these like reminders on time hop, which I had to get rid of, to be honest, because they would have. I had pictures of his little notes. You know he flew off my family and so we could do a tour and he would lead me a handwritten note at the hotel saying Hope you enjoy Portland as much as I do and, you know, welcome to Disneyland, and things like that. And this happened for four months. Well, and I, you know, so did I feel special, absolutely Like. Not only had I not ever, I'd never been reloaded, I had never been courted in that manner.
Celinda Farías Appleby:It felt like the role was perfect and it felt like we had such a great rapport, and he kept telling me I'm fighting hard for you and fighting hard for you. We get to offer. And he asked me to take a pay cut and a title cut, but still so, love bombs, keep up. This is like you know. This is. I felt like I can talk about it now through therapy because I still am feeling PTSD. But I did it because I was like you know what? He put this plan out. It would only be a few months. Just, I had to sell it. This is the only way I could do it. We'll reload you, we'll give you a sign on, you'll feel it, but we all know sign-ons don't make up for your day to day weekly pay, right?
Portia Mount:No, they don't, no, they don't.
Celinda Farías Appleby:But I do. I think with the love bombing and the want to be at Nike, you know, those two combined and being made felt so special right, that I thought it was a great opportunity I get here. And by day two he was yelling at me. He would say things like he had x and quirks and things I couldn't do. I remember sitting at his desk when he was training me. I grabbed a pen and he snapped. He said those pens work for me to use, oh my God. And this went on for 18 months and so I can't say he cultivated my career, but he left me out of a safe space. I was at Oracle doing a great job and promised me the world. Love bombed me, centered it around how much great I could do, and then I relocated as a single pair of eight year old twins.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Um wow, to then have him. I think he's the word abusive, but it could be some shrewd as that, just very dismissive.
Celinda Farías Appleby:You know I'm not your present all the time when I was at Oracle if you Google me, there's a lot of speaking engagements between 2012 and 2016 and then I went dark for 18 months. He wouldn't let me he wouldn't even let me do quotes, and so I, I remember not like reconciling why would this? Why would you pluck me out of a? You know I was on speaking, I was writing, I was blogging, to put me in a cave. I felt like I was in a cave and then mistreat me. He would. You know, I remember not, I'm not a big basketball person. I remember getting two basketball players wrong, you know, and LeBron is a Nike athlete and I brought him up, but I said his name wrong and he rid of, killed me in front of people for weeks about it, things like that. So it became very like just, the work at Nike was so great, but it was hard to understand why he went so hard to bring me on board when he was gonna behave this way in person.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Oh silly.
Portia Mount:I am so sorry that you experienced that it is, it's a, it's emotionally, it's emotionally, yeah, it's emotionally. Be safe, mm-hmm.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Yeah, what do you say when someone like it, like they pulled the wool? Yeah, I can't remember the same, but he said one thing was gonna happen and then that definitely did not, ever happen. Never got by 80 months, never got the promotion he said was coming, never got the raise. So everything that he the person he was over the phone was not the person that Managed me in person straight scammer.
Portia Mount:Yeah, and I'm curious it's definite scammer and it's all the more you know it's, it's, and it's so hard to like knew these things, like, especially when you're interviewing people, are not gonna be like stay away from so-and-so, they're psychotic, you know? I mean like people would like to think that you know, I like you know in the you know of our Lord and Beyonce's Internet, that like you can find out this stuff. But it's very hard, like there's just you can't, you can't, you never know until you get under the roof with that person. And I'm curious, like, did you get, were you able to get, any sort of assistance internally from anyone else? Did you get any support? No, and this is what makes this situation really hard.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I never went to HR.
Portia Mount:You didn't, oh yeah.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Yeah, I never went to HR and I think it's because you're told. You know and keep in mind at Nike.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Portland is a very homogeneous Caucasian and yes, it is, yes, it is and so at the time I joined, nike was very early in their D&I career, you know, and so there was a high number of black employees, but still not to the number of how athletes. There was no comparison there, and the number of Latinos was far less, and so I will say that I don't think we had the support system to complain about it. A and B, I've always been told like a child, not your friend, and I know we sit, so I so I definitely never said I think I started talking to him about it. I do believe he felt threatened by me, even though he knew what I was gonna bring to the table. I felt like it just be created a big wedge between us for a long time, and so when these are recruited me out, I jumped on that, you know, roll whole heart to feed it and I was like what do you need?
Portia Mount:So the idea of he liked the idea of you.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Yeah, and then, and to be fair, our personalities were different. He was an introvert. He didn't really like standing up and talking. I've been used to doing public speaking for so long and since he made me feel so special, I came in probably a little entitled, right, because that was the energy I had received. Like you are, you're gonna build this for us. You know who we picked. I don't think that my vibe and energy were exactly what he thought I would be when I arrived and you and I felt that the whole time we worked together.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:That's so. That's so insidious, like how do you, can you, if you feel comfortable, sharing what are some of the things that you did to repair or rebuild yourself after that experience?
Celinda Farías Appleby:I just as a mini sabbatical, not long enough. I tell people, I now tell people, you know If, if you can afford it and if you can swing it in between toxic jobs, trying to take a little space of breather Because I do think you don't want to bring that Toxidity into your next job. But normally corporate America gives you two weeks and you're letting go and starting anew. So I took a little bit of a break. Lots of therapy I had to. I mean I do therapy anyways, but being vocal about talking through what this did to me and did change me as a, as a Employee, I mean he used to nitpick my PowerPoint skills. He used to. He sent me to school. I mean that's how bad I guess I was.
Celinda Farías Appleby:And I and I do see that resonating. Sometimes, you know, like in current state, I hear all the time oh, your bar is so high, you need to deliver perfectionism, and I think it stems for those 18 months of working with a perfectionist and so I'm constantly working on myself to fix those things. It's, I feel, almost like a weight, just sharing it out loud. Today is the first time I've ever really said it out loud outside of my circle, and I and I, you know, I told myself in 2024 is it was going to be a year to turn a new lease and be diplomatic, because I think with diplomacy you sort of build this, the shell of your. You are who you are. But you know, you sort of have this layer of you know like Queen energy and and I think this is this is helpful in sharing it, because I know other people are experiencing it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:In fact, after I left, people experienced it with with the same purse then, but we just never talked about it while I was there and that is really how people I think who are Bad actors get away with a lot in organizations is people don't feel safe to share and they're not held accountable, even if everybody knows. It's like this very loud secret you know, and so I'm glad that you were able to heal after and that you felt comfortable sharing your story with us. Thank you for letting me, and if you, if you slide the address after our conversation, I will egg his house.
Portia Mount:I will. We write a done. Well, you know, and I just want to echo something that Tiffany said. And so, first of all, so I thank you for sharing that because I promise you, there are so many people Suffering silently. They can't afford to quit or they can't get a job that pays.
Portia Mount:You know they're in a market where you know they, you know if we talked about, there's limited options and Unfortunately, and these companies, and you know, and it's you know, the swish is not unique, like I'd like to say, this was unique to your experience, was unique. It is absolutely not unique. And what you see is is that these individuals do this to lots and lots of employees and the repercussion is never on them. They. They burn people out, those employees get fired or whatever, and they're allowed to Be there as this bad apple in the barrel and everyone just kind of ignores it. And you know, and I think you know, if there are people, leaders out there listening, like we've all been in meat companies where we're like, oh my god, this person's working for so-and-so hope they last, like that is not okay, we've got to be.
Portia Mount:People have some managerial courage and say you know, chad or Jay, you know, or Kelly it. Like they are burning through their tea, like it can't be everyone that's getting fired or leaving. This is like it's the problem of the team member. We've got to be right to say some people don't have any business Managing people or even, frankly, sometimes being in this company because it's not online to the values that we're saying, that we purport to have. Like we've got to get better at calling a spade a spade and saying this person is trash and they do not deserve.
Portia Mount:They are a big deal. They deserve, they are abusive and well, I also think we have to get I'm like on a little bit of a soapbox here, because I think we've all experienced this Is like we've got to get better at saying this person has abusive behavior towards others and it is not. Only is it not right you were exposing the company to liable, like, if that does, if doing the right thing doesn't compel you to take action, maybe getting sued will, and that we can't afford to have these bad actors continue to be on teams and burn through people Because it's just, it's, it's really, really, it's disgusting, you know. Okay, I'm now stepping off of my soapbox.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:It's like what? It's one of those things, though, like you know, my last comment on this part of the call is there's an actual dollar associated with every head you turn in an organization. So even if you don't care about people, right, it's like do you like money like? Do you like just like throwing money out in the trash can? Because that's what's happening when you don't prioritize humans first. It's like I think I read an article it's like 15 to 20k on average every time you have to replace a head. Yeah, so more you know. People burn through staff.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Yeah, depending on the level of leadership, but it's like, yeah, I remember feeling like you spent so much money to move my whole family here and all of those things. The other thing is why I never said anything also is because I did a big leap of faith to move twins in the middle of the school year from Maryland to Portland so Cross country, with no help and to come to tell my family, hey, this man is not what I thought it was. This job is what I thought it was. Felt like I was cleaning, defeat. Now looking back, I feel like I wouldn't feel that way, but in the moment it felt embarrassing. You know, like did I? I'm in HR. I did, I not do my duty yeah, how did I not see this?
Portia Mount:how did I? Why you start questioning your own judgment? But again, yeah, you can't know, you just can't, you can't know. So what do we want our white counterparts to know? You know, having unpacked the situation and the impact that it has on an individual and on a team, what do we? And the fact that oftentimes, because we are the onlys we don't, we won't speak up because we don't want to be considered rabble houses and troublemakers, are ungrateful or whatever. Yeah, you know. What do we want to white counterparts to know? You know, about how they can be better allies in this situation.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I remember talking about this with a career coach couple years ago. Caucasian man was my coach that I had been assigned to at my employer and he didn't understand what like why this was showing up in my day to day and I remember explaining it to him as favorites with Children, right. So if you had kids, multiple kids, right, or even family members, right, I think with kids it makes them more sense. But those parents that can show favoritism to one child and we can also commiserate that there's some days Corey is my favorite and there's some days Brady is just depends on their moods and some days we just want to throw them all in the trash.
Portia Mount:We want to put all of our children in the trash. Whoa, take them. Nobody said.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Nobody's coming at me on Instagram and that is just a joke, everybody no, it's a joke, but you know we have those moments, but it's just like that. It's that favoritism, right? Those parents that hold one child up on a pedestal. Eventually that pedestal is going to crack for anybody and I think that if they can understand it from that perspective which is why we don't make kids our favorites and we try to be equal if we brought that sort of mentality in, I think people would get it. I do think, in full honesty, they feel like they're doing us a favor and they this is part of the boxer checking with DEI to help us break ground and I do felt he felt entitled, that he was helping my career and then I didn't deliver what he wanted, so he turned on me and I think that just happens. It happens so much that I think people just feel like they're being helpful and they're like wait a minute, she's not accepting my help, so I'm going to peel it back and this is not fair.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:It's ill. Okay, I'm gonna sprinkle a little bit of like light.
Portia Mount:Please, please, because I'm a drink right now.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Yes, so selly. You have beautiful bright red nails on and we often ping each other about just Fan grilling over style.
Portia Mount:You always have the best style. Oh my god, listen to this. Thank you, thank you.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:As a matter of fact, porsche said something to me a few years ago that I cite often Selly and she said that has women of color at work. You can't hide, so you might as well stand out. So I'd love to just hear your thoughts on what being bold at work means to you, and what are some of the things that you do whether it's style choices or Behavior choices that you make that allow you to just show up boldly.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Yeah, it took me a long time and I've worked across the way, different industries. Being bold and at HP is different than being bold at Nike and you know Nike being bold at visa right and I do my very best to stay as authentic as I can to who I am, but I'm a big believer of the loops and the ruby-woo that I did not put on today but it sits on my desk and I'm a Firm believer as love. Leopard is the color on my wheel. I love that you say leopard is a color.
Portia Mount:I Love it, I love it. I, by the way, I I love animal prints, I love all things up and you know I love sparkles when I host meetings.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I throw a little leopard and you know if it's not like a visa, heavy PowerPoint, but I'll do my, my own infusions of things, you, you count to a brand, your company brand. I'll tell you I host.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I love it. A brag about it. Be about it. So quarterly I host a brag about it. Be about it, where everybody gets to brag about one thing they did professionally, personally, and that deck is a Celinda by, not a visa by, because it's Celinda party party. I love it and people really do like it, especially our, our new younger members on the team. But I think it's less about style and feeling comfortable. I mean, I do think you should feel comfortable wearing what you want to wear but it's more about in your heart, I believe, and in being situationally aware. You know, if I face, if you can't be the same person to everyone, I know they the authenticity sometimes tells you you have to be. If you show up this way, you have to be that way, just being situationally aware with who you're around. I I do code switch quite a bit. I wish I didn't.
Portia Mount:I was gonna say we should talk about. You're bringing up the code switch because, as women of color, as black, and you know black and brown women, we could we code switch. Do you even explain what code switching is, because are some of our squad may not actually know what that is.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Yeah, coach, which means that you have your you know how I'm speaking with you a lot more casual slang. We, we drop some, some, some curse words and then you have your corporate America cylinder. You know face. Where I'm throwing words Like I'm out of bandwidth, you know, are the bumpers in. The reality is, in my current job there's not many people I can code switch with. Yeah, so I try to maintain a persona that's a little bit corporate and a little bit cylinder. At visa At night gives a little different. You could code switch all the time because there are more people like me there. But I think being bold and being authentic is showing up every day could be different. Right, just showing up. If I woke, wake up and I'm excited, like me and you were bonding over being extroverts, showing up and and being happy and bugging people to do icebreakers, that's fine. They know Celinda's gonna ask you to do that. Right, and that is authentic to me. I love that.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:What are the risks and or rewards for women of color who do choose to take up space in that way? Oh, lots of risks.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I think that everybody gives us passes. I think people give humans passes, but if we make one mistake, I think I feel you know I can only speak from my experience One mistake and I'm immediately called on it. Where I think people that are in homogeneous groups are Loud, a lot more passes. I'll get a warning faster, you know. Hey, you said that in a meeting and then, yeah, I don't want you to say that ever again, or why did you do that? Right, where I see my colleagues that are homogeneous in nature Saying things that no one calls or flags them on. So I think we we do get called on a little bit more. Well, I think we're held to a higher standard, and I don't know if it's because there's so few of us around. I also think we're constantly delivering such high-quality work, so they expect us to be perfect not too perfect, but Because and that's too much, and and I think that it's it's a tough line and that's why we're leaving corporate America, right, I think that's why a lot of us are leaving.
Portia Mount:It's tiring, yeah, as I think about what you're saying, selly, it's like we, we can be ourselves, but you I'm kind of pulling into the meta of something you're saying is like but we can do that because we deliver at such a high level. Like I will too. I feel very comfortable being a little extroverted, looking cute, if you will, wearing my bossy beauty unstoppable. Let me just also do my lipstick add right here.
Portia Mount:Love you bossy beauty, we're gonna list, we're gonna list all the red lipsticks, everybody. Do not worry, we will have them here. But I also tell people like, like, don't get it twisted. I know my shit. Like I might like, when it comes to my work, my game is tight. Like one thing I do not play with. You will see me Joking and, you know, asking about your kids, but please understand, when it comes to work, I will bring it hard, I will be, I will strive for excellence, I will expect it for myself and others and like, I will like no days off on that front, you know, and I think that's the thing. Yeah, no day on the front, and that's that is.
Portia Mount:That is a hundred percent who I am is like I'll be fun and playful, but like if you're about to fumble my bag or do some Shenanigan their nonsense on my watch. No, you won't. That will not be happening, and and I think that as we think about other, generations and their comfortability.
Celinda Farías Appleby:I think you get more authentic, or you get more comfortable in your skin as you get better at your job, as you become a subject matter expert. You know, I think this person that you're talking to today Wouldn't have shared a lot of the things I shared with you today, 15 years ago, right, but you all you start owning your truth and you're validated by your experience, and I think those two, combined with just being good humans, makes it easier yeah, because you're not just a good person Makes it easier, yeah be a good person.
Portia Mount:Right Be it, don't be a. Or, tiffany, you said once like just don't be a trash person, just be, be a good person, be a good person. Yeah, so we are at our favorite part of the pod call the lightning round, and the first question for you is what is your a favorite motto or phrase that defines your mindset? Don't kill my vibe.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Kendrick Lamar oh my god. Yes, I have it framed in my office. I say it to the kids all the time. I think we can all feel our feels professionally, personally, like I'm a firm believer of feel your feels, but I'm vibing high, so don't kill my vibe. I'm not. I don't want to meet you, I'm not coming down.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Yeah, I'm not coming down there.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Okay, I don't want to come down there to meet me up here, so just don't kill my vibe.
Portia Mount:I had this you were an icon, sally. I love it, that is you were an icon and I love that. I love that. I love that for you and for us. I hope there's some. You have touched you Genuinely, genuinely touched somebody out there listening. You have transformed them with that.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:With that I promise you Don't kill my vibe. Okay, you are accepting a huge award. What is your walk-on song?
Celinda Farías Appleby:Um, I, I went back and forth with this one, but a millie by little, wayne. Oh my god, we can be friends forever. Yes, I think I could get a little beat going.
Portia Mount:You know, there's a I can oh my god, you know what we'll add this to. We've got a playlist. We're gonna have I listen, I love this. I I have. I have rolled up into the draw to the pick up, the middle school pickup, blasting this With my fortune like mom, can you turn it down? But I'm like what's a game to? What goblin you gonna make? I love it. Oh my god, I love it.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Yes, it's just such a pump you up song you know it is such a pump.
Portia Mount:you, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I just got really excited. I'll, I'll come down, I'll come down. What's one book that you find yourself gifting or recommending repeatedly?
Celinda Farías Appleby:Okay, this one was hard because there's. I wanted to give you all a career book, but then the book I really genuinely feel, especially as a marketer, is still like an artist Austin Kellan. There's a couple of steel, like artists. It's a very small table, like desktop table Book. And the premise of this book someone gave it to me when I first started a marketing. So keep my. I was a recruiter, never had done marketing, especially not for HP or corporation, and I was super stressed about it. And this human gave me this book and he said no, you don't have to always create new ideas, be inspired by the world around you, and this book is really good about that, that's good so whenever I'm feeling like I got to pull a new powerpoint out, I will skim through the book and remind myself that, no, I probably already delivered this.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Dig into the archives. You can. You can just elevate it, versus starting from scratch.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I love that. I love that. That's good. Okay, best purchase you've ever made under $150.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Okay, this one was hard because I buy a lot of things um, but I will.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Shopping girly my my financial Person told me last year I needed to curb some things, so we're working on. But my favorite purchase that I use every day is a water cooler that has a k-cup dispenser and I love it because I got rid of my k-cup and it you basically you put your little water, it filtered water for your. It's elevated my coffee experience Now. Of course I have my Nespresso, but I the sprestos for like fancy Saturday morning coffee. I like to fill up a 24 ounce mug every day and the k-cup is perfect 24 ounces of coffee a day, because that is a heck of a lot of coffee sometimes 32, sometimes 32.
Celinda Farías Appleby:It'll stay well. This, this is my water and I'll do like five of these coffee. But coffee I do drink a lot and and the reason is my tea's on the east coast, so some of my meetings start at 6 am. But yeah yeah, I gotta be an extrovert, and, and so you know, or else they think I'm not showing up. So, um, I started drinking coffee in five minutes or more, I think good gracious, good gracious. Yeah okay.
Portia Mount:This is a safe space, selly. We've been bonding for a while, so I feel like we're ready to. You're ready to answer this question. What's a secret, uh, unpopular opinion that you hold?
Celinda Farías Appleby:All right, don't hate me. Uh, money can buy happiness. I believe that I'm saying people are always telling me Celinda letting camera happiness and I'm like what?
Portia Mount:No, people who, people who have money are the ones you see, true true, I, I grew up poor, you know I'm parents or immigrants.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Yeah, to me, money affords me a trip to hawaii with my kids. You know my little, my cake cups right, my little family, you know. And so to me, money does buy happiness. It doesn't have to be materialistic, it's just also the not worrying about paying the bills, the freedom.
Portia Mount:Right it's, it's like it put like the the freedom. Yeah, amen, amen, I can get behind that.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I can get behind that. Amen, okay. Last question what is a hobby that you have that would surprise people who know you?
Celinda Farías Appleby:Okay, some people, some people know this about me, but during 2020, I went through therapy and doing, uh, the child stuff you know, like working on your, your inner child work and, um, part of that work she was like you need to find something that you enjoyed to do and I'm like what's I enjoy? As a kid I could not remember, and it was painting. And so for the past four years, I paint. It's all over my office, all over my house. Kids make fun of me, but I do feel that when I'm in a stressful moment or I feel overwhelmed in life, if I can just roll out a canvas with all my paint, I feel the most happiest. They're not great, I think that's why they make fun of me, but I still probably hang them because it's an accomplishment to get through the painting. Sometimes.
Portia Mount:That's awesome. I love that, and so I want to ask you one quick bonus question, since we're both sports moms. How would you describe your sports mom attitude when you're watching your boys play baseball? Are you one of those quiet moms who like quietly cheers? Are you like the mom who goes in hard, like you know, hastening back and forth, like the LSU basketball, women's basketball coach, like, where, like? How would you just describe your sports mom, vibe?
Celinda Farías Appleby:It's changed over the years, but I think I was such an LSU mom that my kids have put me in a quiet embargo space. They're like you need to calm them down. They shut you down. They're like you can clap, you can clap, I'm the mom that's recording. I'm recording them so and everybody knows, like you know, when my kids are at bat they're like oh, there goes Luda. So I have the little fancy stuff to record them.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Um, I try to be real quiet when they're at that um or pitching, because they've asked me to and I and I do my best to respect because I think I grew up with parents that you would ask them to do things and they didn't. However, once they get on base, all I am excitable, I'm loud and obnoxious because I am proud. I mean, I see them work so hard and even in the off season and and you know, we don't have a big family year, so it's me and my ex-husband girlfriend. Some other families will have like 10, 15 people and so I want to make up for that loss of family. Yeah, I'll try them on.
Portia Mount:I love that. I love that, tiffany. This is what you have to look forward to you know, I know we'll see.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:We might try lacrosse this year.
Portia Mount:We'll see, I love lacrosse.
Portia Mount:Well, sally, it has been so wonderful to have you here. Thank you, we can't wait for the squad to you know, especially, you know, hear your experience, you know. I hope people will walk away understanding that why we're living in the era where you can really chart your course. You can and this, I think this, this place called work, is evolving right, it's evolving.
Portia Mount:What I loved also, what you talked about, was just your experience and what we talked about from pet to threat, and for me it's really about the vulnerability you showed and also for people to know that they're not alone. So, and also that you know what. You can have good corporate experiences out there too. I think you know we've you are in corporate America. I recently left corporate America, tiffany left corporate America but we also want people to understand that there's like all kinds of environments where you can thrive when you're in the right environment and you know yourself. You know yourself and what you want to get out of your career. So thank you for just thank you for sharing that. We love you. We can't wait to see you back on the IG streets.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Yeah, I know I need to. I need to get more vocal, but I will. It's part of the 24 plan and you all, both inspire me every day, every day. I see y'all posting. I know I'm your number one fan because I'm out there liking it, commenting. We love it.
Portia Mount:We know we love like all your world hoods and your comments, and I you know. I will just say for the folks listening if you don't get on social media, even when you're introvert, it is fun. It doesn't have to be a competitive crazy thing, it just it can be so much fun.
Celinda Farías Appleby:Yeah, that's how we met.
Portia Mount:That's how we should share.
Portia Mount:That is how we all met. We all met online Like we did not know each other before before, you know, heading into the wilds of the IG streets, and so it is just that is. That is one of the. You know, social media has a lot of things that like are not awesome, but it is one of the most awesome things being able to meet just extraordinary, extraordinary people. So take that away from our experience, sully. Thank you so much. Great to have you and we'll, we hope, to see you next time. Thank you, thanks for listening to the Manifesta podcast. Our sound designer and audio engineer is Neapolik of Neapolik Sound. Our social media manager is Destiny Eiger. Have a question, comment or topic for our next episode? Email us at themanifesta at gmailcom. Be sure to rate, review and subscribe to our show on Apple podcast, spotify or wherever you listen to your pods. Your ratings help other listeners find us, and don't forget to follow us on Instagram at themanifesta, and TikTok at themanifestapod. See you next time.